Justin Raimondo’s Attack on the Golden Dawn"/>
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Déjà Vu:
Justin Raimondo’s Attack on the Golden Dawn

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Justin Raimondo is a prolific, principled, and insightful paleo-libertarian. Unlike every other libertarian under the sun, he actively and vocally follows his individualist non-aggression principles to their logical conclusion even when it’s socially and politically uncomfortable to do so. He’s an outspoken opponent of “Zionist” warmongering, highlighting both neocon perfidy over here and Likudnik abuses over there.

He nailed it recently at The American Conservative . . .

I don’t think we’ve ever had a candidate more in thrall to a foreign leader than we have in the person of Mitt Romney. Here is a candidate for the White House attacking his opponent for not visiting Israel when he was in the Middle East – as if the president of the United States is some sort of vassal. It is truly astonishing to hear Romney criticize Obama for saying he wanted to put “daylight” between the U.S. and Israel – forgetting that the U.S. and Israel are different countries. Or is that not true anymore?

From among the countless hit pieces on Greece’s nationalist Golden Dawn Party, Raimondo’s article is perhaps the only one which isn’t tiresome left-wing cosmopolitan boilerplate. It’s tiresome and wrong, mind you, but in a thoughtful and coherent manner worthy of a response.

It begins with the usual fear-mongering: “Déjà Vu: Fascism on the Rise,” followed by an ominous hint at fascism’s viral nature: In Europe — and here?

His basic premise, a familiar one I agree with, is that the economic crises and austerity programs are empowering dissident factions:

The economic and social factors that led to the rise of national socialism and fascism in Europe are too well-known to require much reiteration here: the plight of Weimar Germany, with its runaway inflation, and subsequent social disintegration, pulverized the socio-economic fabric of the nation that gave us Goethe and Beethoven, empowering authoritarian ideologues of the right and the left. Marginal figures moved to the mainstream, and the results were horrific.

That process seems to be repeating itself today, with the rising tide of far-right movements in Greece, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, and even Finland. And it isn’t just Europe: the so-called Arab Spring is occasioned by skyrocketing food prices and even worse economic conditions than we see elsewhere. With Islamist parties moving to fill the breach as US-supported tyrants like Hosni Mubarak fall by the wayside, the Weimar Effect is very far from being an exclusively European phenomenon.

I agree with it, but only after inverting it. This economic crisis isn’t radicalizing and destabilizing the Greek people, it’s awakening them. This isn’t entirely a subjective matter of perspective, either. The previous economy was the product of an artificial and unsustainable bubble, which makes the current economic situation and political dynamic the more normal of the two. By contemporary non-Western and any historical standard, the Golden Dawn’s traditionalist, socialist, and nationalist positions are closer to being the normal ones. Calling the massive foreign invasion “immigration” doesn’t make it normal, and sitting on your hands while your heritage and future are being usurped in broad daylight is decidedly abnormal.

Their response to the “austerity” policies of centrist politicians is to blame foreigners — 2 million of whom currently reside in Greece — for rising crime and “stealing jobs” from natives.

Golden Dawn’s platform isn’t that immigrants are the problem. It’s that they’re a major part of the problem . . . because they are. Even if the immigrants were congenitally incapable of committing crime and came with bags of gold to contribute to the economy, Greece wouldn’t belong to those golden angels — Greece belongs to the Greeks! Of course, the legal and illegal immigrants actually do perpetrate a grossly disproportionate amount of the violent crimes and they do displace the most vulnerable Greeks from the highly competitive job market.

Black-shirted toughs patrol the streets, beating up foreigners, attacking immigrant hotels, and even infiltrating the police, who have “out-sourced” law enforcement in large sections of central Athens to Golden Dawn thugs.

Justin Raimondo, Nazi Hunter

Justin Raimondo, Nazi Hunter

If the immigrant crime wave is imaginary and the Golden Dawn are black-shirted thugs, it would be odd for Greece’s law enforcement to collaborate with them. If the immigrant crime wave were real, and the Golden Dawn were not merely black-shirted thugs, it would make perfect sense for Greece’s law enforcement community to collaborate with them as a sort of neighborhood watch, wouldn’t it? Facts are beside the point for global capitalism’s amen corner, but the fact that about half of the crimes committed in Greece are committed by immigrants is utterly incompatible with Raimondo’s analysis.

Like all fascists everywhere, they cite historical fantasies of a “Greater” nation: if Golden Dawn ever came to power, the “lost” lands of Macedonia and portions of the former Yugoslavia would be “reclaimed,” and war with Turkey would only be a matter of time.

Discarding the inflammatory epithet “fascist” and reviewing examples of recent social nationalist regimes, their record of belligerence is no greater than that of cosmopolitan capitalist countries, cosmopolitan socialist countries, or Marxist countries. If anything, it’s a list of victims, not perpetrators: Libya, Syria, Iraq, Venezuela, and Iran. The “mainstream” parties in Greece actively support the NATO and EU war machines which are actively engaged in wars of aggression.

Why would Justin Raimondo be so concerned about the hypothetical possibility of Golden Dawn engaging in regional squabbles at some point in the future when Greece’s current oligarchy is actively engaged in unjust wars right here and now? I suspect it’s because he realizes what the Golden Dawn represents: a devastating setback and harbinger of what’s to come for global capitalism and radical individualism. From Raimondo’s perspective, it will look and feel like history is going the wrong way, that a new dark age is coming.

He explains that while America isn’t as far along the sinister path of “fascism” as Greece and Hungary, it’s heading in that direction. After all, there are people here who think illegal immigration is a problem . . . proto-fascists, he suspects. He puts scare quotes around our illegal immigration “problem” because he’s a libertarian ideologue who categorically cannot see humans in terms of families, communities, tribes, and nations. Justin Raimondo only cares about blood when it’s being splattered. If White Americans are subjected to the soft genocide of demographic replacement and economic displacement, then that’s acceptable collateral damage for him in our singular universal quest for cancerous and unsustainable economic growth . . . and world peace!

Although the actual “problem” of illegal immigration has recently been cut in half due to the economic downturn — the jobs these migrants are supposedly “stealing” from us having evaporated — it’s interesting that the rhetoric of the anti-immigrationists has only gotten louder and more extreme.

Once again, Raimondo’s projecting his ideology on reality. The illegal immigration problem hasn’t been “cut in half.” The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that the number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be down as much as 13% from its crest immediately before the economic crisis. Even if we take that number at face value, the number of anchor babies and amnesty recipients who aren’t technically illegal immigrants well exceeds it. And, of course, the legal immigrant population is still growing at an unsustainable rate. Contra Raimondo, mainstream sources — not black-shirted thugs — are asserting that immigrants are elbowing American citizens out of what few jobs are being created in this tightening economy. Inside Raimondo’s shrinkwrapped ideological box, reacting defensively to an invasion (he clinically refers to them as  “the other”) is categorically crude collectivist scapegoating, regardless of the facts on the ground.

For a libertarian, acting in your group’s interest is categorically bad, especially if your group happens to be White.

According to his flawed model, fascism is even inclusive of America’s neocon aggression. While I hesitate to engage in an etymological quibble, expanding the definition of fascism to include the current American situation amounts to re-defining it as “a government that I strongly dislike.” There’s no American nationalism at the heart of America’s aggression, not even our flimsy and impotent civic nationalism. The antiquated concept of Manifest Destiny is entirely unrelated to this regime’s foreign policy. In fact, American history, culture, and even current public opinion are unrelated to this regime’s foreign policy.

If anything, America’s situation is the very antithesis of fascism. We’re a nation so utterly indifferent about our group interests, our identity, and our immigration invasion that a group of immigrants with an alien identity is welcome to stride right in and operate our government and its military in the group interests of an entirely different people. It doesn’t get much more anti-fascist than that! Raimondo wags his finger in the general direction of the Jews operating in their group interests as well, because he’s ideologically consistent. But this brings us to the fundamental disconnect between libertarianism and reality: To eschew your group interests in this integrally tribal world of group competition is to unilaterally disarm yourself, ensuring that you and yours are swept aside by peoples who don’t make this fatal mistake.

Run, Nazis, Run!Justin Raimondo would surely label me a fascist. I’m a social nationalist and even a dreaded racialist. I’m certainly closer to being a tribalist than an individualist. And yet, I don’t harbor hatred of “the other.” I hope Jews, Mexicans, and others have a great future . . . just not my future and not in my community. I prefer to own up to our mistakes instead of scapegoating, though Raimondo knows as well as I do that one of our “mistakes” is handing control of our future over to Jewish conspirators. I find all of these unjust wars morally objectionable, and I believe that both military and capitalist imperialism ends up degrading both victor and victim alike. Far from coveting a “Greater America,” I would gladly settle for a mere fraction of the territory my forefathers controlled.

I don’t secretly wish to invade Mexico, oppress any minorities, or exterminate any Jews. While I can’t speak for every nationalist group or individual, the groups and individuals I’ve engaged are not the black-shirted thugs in Justin Raimondo’s imagination. There have surely been “fascist” excesses and errors in the past, but why are our sins and our sins alone exaggerated, mythologized, and feared as they are while global capitalist atrocities are being committed right here and now? Why does he dismiss victims of immigrant crimes as illegitimate and unworthy of sympathy while hyperventilating over the mere possibility of a reaction?

The youngest Jew to survive those particular concentration camps in that maelstrom of concentration camps and genocides on all sides qualified for senior citizen discounts before I was in high school.  Yet I am expected to answer for that. The Golden Dawn is expected to answer for that. If you care about the future of your ethnic community, support immigration reform, or object to borderless and tariff-free global capitalism, then Justin Raimondo has some pointed questions for you about The Holocaust.

In his mind, and in the mind of this system’s “mainstream” elites, we are the villainous and threatening “other.” In a way, Justin Raimondo’s right about that. But we’re not going to target any peasants for genocide. We’re going to target them. We’re going to target their privileges, their systems, and their wars. Raimondo has my respect for objecting to their wars, but it’s utterly impotent to object to the wars without challenging Jewish (not neocon, not Zionist, not Likudnik, not elite . . . Jewish) power and unmitigated corporate greed.

That’s where we come in.

 

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34 Comments

  1. Daniel
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    Is Raimondo channeling his old nemesis Stephen Schwartz now?

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=9302

  2. Ted
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    We must be clear: conservatives and libertarians are just as much – or more – our opponents as are the obvious “Leftists.” At least with the latter, they are easily recognized as being incompatible with the basic memes of Counter-Currents. However, some get led astray by some degrees of overlap with Paleoconservatives and Libertarian conservatives and forget that these are at best, cul-de-sacs to lure the unwary into political oblivion, or, at worst, open enemies who would denounce us all as “jack-booted fascists.”

    Just because this Raimondo criticizes Israel, and Romney’s pathetically lickspittle subservience to his “good friend Bibi” doesn’t make this “libertarian individualist” any friend of ours. And, obviously, he doesn’t want to be.

  3. Posted November 6, 2012 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    “There have surely been “fascist” excesses and errors in the past, but why are our sins and our sins alone exaggerated, mythologized, and feared as they are while global capitalist atrocities are being committed right here and now? Why does he dismiss victims of immigrant crimes as illegitimate and unworthy of sympathy while hyperventilating over the mere possibility of a reaction?”

    Rhetorical question, I know, but I’ll take a swing: because the first are committed against Jews, the second by [or at the direction of] Jews.

  4. Posted November 6, 2012 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Excellent analysis of the otherwise inestimable JR.

    I especially like the attention paid to the hypocrisy of denouncing yet-uncommitted “aggression” by “fascists” by, and in the name of, the really existing aggressive, expansionist powers like the US/EU.

    In general, you would think that the totally reversed, mirror-like [and yes, a metaphor, like Bizarro-World, that I get from JR himself, which he applies only to post-911 neocons] nature of the world of ‘hope’ and ‘change’ would make it more, not less, effective, more, not less, obviously a lie, but then that’s the nature of chutzpah.

    By the way, note also how They are always talking “Hitler’s Big Lie Policy”. Hmmmm. Mirror much?

    Which also reminds me that in addition to immigration, the lib anti-fa’s also parrot [no pun!] the same line in economics. Corporations and globalization are always “fascist” , Mussolini is always trotted out to talk about “the corporate state” [which of course is Catholic doctrine and has nothing to do with the Citizens United decision but, as when Belushi said the Nazi's bombed Pearl Harbor, shut up, he's on a roll], FEMA are “jackbooted thugs” [what about those big fur hats the Commies wore?] etc. Jesse’s otherwise excellent Cafe Americain has at least one piece every week weeping and moaning the “martyrs to Hitler’s madness” yet, as far as I know, has never noticed any Communist martyrs.

    Since The Nazis are the official symbol of Total Evil [for reasons we gave in our last comment] the effect is to paralylize any effective opposition [i.e., us] by making everyone reach for the ‘fascist’ card to characterize The Problem” in the first place.

    Of course, historically, that’s actually true: the real Fascists were fighting capitalism, bankers, globalism, etc. But no one can make that connection now, except in the wrong direction.

    The answer to “You don’t want to bring back the Fascists, do you?” should be a resolute Yes.

  5. DJF
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    It is standard opinion to talk about how economic problems lead to an increase in power by the ‘extremist” yet in fact the present economic problems have led to more power being taken by the “liberal” EU and other governments.

    They point in horror at the Golden Dawn which has no voice in government and ignore the people who have actual power in both the Greek and EU governments in expanding their power even when the public is against them.

  6. Canenas
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Anyone who knew pre-immigration Greece and the Greece of today knows full well almost 99& of the street crime is due to foreigners, period. The Athens of the 80’s was safe, safe, safe. That’s what the GD takes care of w/o doing it in the soft-headed “democratic” manner, that is what irritates these people.

    • Catiline
      Posted November 6, 2012 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

      Canenas,

      Could you comment on the activity (or lack thereof) of the Greek Orthodox Church regarding the current crisis? I know that Greek leftists have attacked the wealth of the church recently; a similar phenomenon with respect to Italy and the Catholic Church. Except that Italian Rightists have called into question the church’s wealth and fiscal privileges too. Have Greek Rightists done the same in Greece?

  7. Dominion
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Raimondo certainly makes many valid points.

    Golden Dawn’s program may contain more elements than “the immigrants are the problem”, but it certainly doesn’t seem much like it to someone who is admittedly not in Greece nor speaking the Greek language. The immigrants are there because of an economic structure and practice which the West has a large role in maintaining and upholding. If GD wanted to solve the problems of a society facing mass immigration, focusing more on how to change this power structure would go a lot further in the long run than beating up Korean and black foreigners.

    They have done excellent work in creating a support system, and in terms of this and street activism they’re a fine example for smaller nationalist or identitarian groups. That said, although they are described here as “socialist”, they don’t seem to have much of an economic plan apart from rejecting the bailout system that Greece is currently subject to. Perhaps someone can elaborate more on this if I am in error. Similarly, apart from the usual citing of Evola and some other Traditionalist authors, I don’t see much evidence of actual Traditionalism in the Golden Dawn’s theory or practice. I would say they fit Mark Dyal’s Nietzschean-inspired Roman neofascists than Evola in that regard.

    With regards to revanchism, it would be far better to see Golden Dawn adopt the regionalist position of the identitaires, especially with regards to Macedonia. Personally speaking, this seems to encourage a greater focus on the actual people who make up the Greek nation, rather than simply the idea of the Greek nation, a confusion which can lead to many quandaries. Think only of Franco’s love for the Spanish nation as an iron fist was brought down on the people themselves…and who if not they make up the nation?

    • Posted November 6, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

      Dominion,

      The immigrants are there because of an economic structure and practice which the West has a large role in maintaining and upholding.

      And a good first step in reversing that trend, one which can start at the grassroots, is making it vividly clear to potential immigrants that they’re not welcome.

      If GD wanted to solve the problems of a society facing mass immigration, focusing more on how to change this power structure would go a lot further in the long run than beating up Korean and black foreigners.

      You accept the biased media’s assertion that the GD are going around beating up innocent immigrants. I strongly doubt that’s the case, and suspect that absolutely any attempt at the most milquetoast neighborhood watch effort would be framed by the global media as Kristallnacht 2.0. We saw with the Trayvon/Zimmerman farce here in America just how little patience our media have for people responding in kind to violence from their protected groups.

      Your strategy is also off, here. The Golden Dawn is earning the credibility of the people at the grassroots as the only faction they can trust to protect them against this growing problem. While I wish they were reading Prof. MacDonald instead of The Protocols in parliament, their doing so confirms that they do have an overarching meta-political strategy in mind. The notion that they’re merely a band of myopic thugs slapping around immigrant schoolchildren is incompatible with a brief review of the origins and stated goals of the Golden Dawn.

      That said, although they are described here as “socialist”, they don’t seem to have much of an economic plan apart from rejecting the bailout system that Greece is currently subject to.

      People outside of America don’t have the myopic fixation on economics or the mistaken impression that all matters boil down to economic ones. That originates in an integrally Mercantile worldview. They’re for an economic system which serves the Greek nation rather than the Jewish oligarchs and global capitalists. The precise nature and structure of that economic system is a detail to be worked out later.

      Similarly, apart from the usual citing of Evola and some other Traditionalist authors, I don’t see much evidence of actual Traditionalism in the Golden Dawn’s theory or practice. I would say they fit Mark Dyal’s Nietzschean-inspired Roman neofascists than Evola in that regard.

      They’re Orthodox Traditionalists, in the vein of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu. Evola was more impressed with Codreanu and his Iron Guard than with any other leader or political order as a model of applied Radical Traditionalism in the modern age.

      With regards to revanchism, it would be far better to see Golden Dawn adopt the regionalist position of the identitaires, especially with regards to Macedonia.

      I share your unease with reports that they have all sorts of “Greater Greece” ambitions. I hope those are exaggerated and I hope that perhaps they can be persuaded to franchise and export their political model to their neighbors rather than handing the global elites a convenient moral excuse for decimating and dismantling the nascent project.

      That being said, I hesitate to lecture or scold a project which is working. I wouldn’t promote the revanchist policy myself, but I’m not in a position to school them on how to orchestrate a social nationalist revolution against modernity’s usual suspects. While we should certainly engage in critical thinking, and should certainly understand that there would be massive differences between the applications, I have far more to gain from their mentorship than they have to gain from mine.

      • Dominion
        Posted November 6, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

        While the media obviously doesn’t do anything near a professional job of looking at the faces and problems of the people who make up Golden Dawn and its followers, the fact is that they have in fact engaged in violent acts against immigrants. I’m not talking here about community protection, or fights and criminal acts that were instigated by immigrants, but rather attacks on foreigners which, whatever the case against the system that brought them there might be, were unprovoked.

        Attacks on a South Korean tourist were reported some days ago, and this article says reports two on pregnant women.
        http://rt.com/news/hatred-migrants-greece-attacks-874/

        Disturbingly, the same has been done with journalists, which is exactly the sort of brutish behaviour which leads to unaccountability and repression of dissent. Yes, the anti-fascists and big media too it too, but they are not the standard we should be using.

        There is also a difference in having a society based on economics, and having an economics which serves a society. But the latter requires one to have an understanding of economic theory and practice, and have a program in place. Golden Dawn does not as yet have this, although there is plenty of opportunity for them to learn from others (Chavez, for example, would probably be of interest).

        It’s obviously always difficult to make proper judgement when one is not at the center of the action. The youth in Golden Dawn are putting themselves at risk for their homeland and that is commendable. What we can do from here, however, is offer counsel in terms of how their actions may be received by others, and use what knowledge we have of past events, through experience or history, to make sure that mistakes of the past are not repeated. Not just “Greece without Islam”, or “Greece free of invasion”, but “Greece of and for the Greeks, in a Europe of and for the Europeans.”

      • Jaego
        Posted November 6, 2012 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        Is the Greek Church on board with all this? If so, I’m mighty impressed and more inclined to convert from the Catholicism of my birth. Pope Benedict’s complete capitulation to Globalism is a big shove as well. Especially bizarre considering how Anti-Christian most Globalist organizations and individuals are. But it does seem to fufill prophecy that a false imitation of the real Church will arise in the latter days. The Globalists will at least tolerate a Vatican Two style Catholic Church.

  8. Markus
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Raimondo is a non-Jew with anti-neocon and pro-traditionalist credentials, and so unlike me you’re forced to consider rather than summarily dismiss his views. Hopefully, your editor is willing to let you all indulge mine for a minute.

    Raimondo claims that “all fascists everywhere…cite historical fantasies of a ‘Greater’ nation.” Parrott insists on the contrary he harbors no hatred for the other nor any visions of conquest. My understanding is most of the European New Right and the various new white nationalist/pro-white movements are also — at least on paper — averse to the idea of ruling over the “Other.” And given the desire for more ethnic/racial purity, they’re mostly willing to redraw boundaries and cede historic lands in pursuit of that purity, rather than insisting on majority-over-minority rule, imperial rule or population transfer. Is this a firm conviction, or only a promise to be jettisoned when power is attained and more ambitious schemes suddenly seem possible?

    What is it about certain nationalisms that makes land and history become much more important than people and culture? I notice that Serb nationalists are much more passionate about reconquering Albanian Kosovo than in incorporating Republika Srpska into present-day Serbia. The Third Reich hardly seemed satisfied with the incorporation of Danzig and the Polish Corridor into Germany. And Raimondo brings up the Macedonian question. Macedonians say they’re not Greek and not a part of the Republic of Greece. That should be the end of the discussion, no?

    If Nationalist ideas are going to be worth anything, if they are going to be HUMANE, they have to lose all appetite for imperial rule as well as population transfer. Revanchism is legitimate only when there is a georgraphically contiguous and overwhelmingly homogeneous captive POPULATION that the nation seeks to reunite with, rather than just lost lands to be reclaimed.

    I think humane nationalism requires two more things many current nationalists are UNWILLING to accept. First, the acceptance of small amounts of diversity, mainly just in cities. Second, allowing people to define THEMSELVES, rather than be defined by outsiders. That means Turkish-Kurds get to decide if they are Turkish, Kurdish or both. Bulgarian Macedonians get to decide who they are. And American Jews get to decide if they are Jewish, white or both.

    • Posted November 6, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      Markus,

      If Nationalist ideas are going to be worth anything, if they are going to be HUMANE, they have to lose all appetite for imperial rule as well as population transfer. Revanchism is legitimate only when there is a georgraphically contiguous and overwhelmingly homogeneous captive POPULATION that the nation seeks to reunite with, rather than just lost lands to be reclaimed.

      A cardinal difference, in my opinion, between Old Right and New Right is a sincere commitment to pluriversalism. You’ll just have to take my word for it that it’s where my heart is, I guess. And I’m not going to indulge those who would frame the conversation in terms of “Prove to me that you’re not going to be evil Nazis.”

      It’s the sort of rhetorical tar baby that conservatives too eagerly indulge, that of allowing the opponent to define what you probably are and then investing your energy in arguing why you’re not that. If my relationships with Black Panthers, Black Traditionalists, Latin American Traditionalists, Amerindian activists, Middle Eastern Christians, East Asian radicals, and even anti-Zionist Jews doesn’t convince you, then nothing I say could possibly convince you.

      And American Jews get to decide if they are Jewish, white or both.

      Jews are a unique, distinct, and separate ethnic, religious, cultural, social, and political identity which is utterly incompatible with being a White American. The debate over whether or not Jews are racially White is utterly, absolutely, totally, completely irrelevant. If you’re a blond-haired, blue-eyed, straight-nosed Radical Traditionalist Jew who’s married to my sister and donating handsomely to Counter-Currents and myself then . . . thank you for the money . . . but you do not belong to my identity group.

      Period. Paragraph. Page Break. Chapter. Volume. Canon. Library.

      Whether you’re a subtle troll or somebody who’s muddled in his thinking and has some more of it to do, your post is a textbook case of the sort of diversions and subversions of our core message and our cardinal principles that we must be vigilant against. People like you are why there has to be an intellectual school at the core of any serious nationalist movement in the United States: Because it takes a philosophical and rhetorical education to see what you did there and effectively parry it.

      • kilroy
        Posted November 6, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        Matt, I think your idea of absolute exclusion of jews is ridiculously extreme. Not even the third reich was like that. Read Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers” by Brian Rigg. Jewish soldiers who served well in the army could apparently join the national community. Many top army brass were partially jewish. As long as they honestly repudiate their lies, hypocrisies and other methods, and are willing to fight on the right side, then I say, let them in.
        The church has had the correct attitude in this. The only problem lies in false conversions.

        • Greg Johnson
          Posted November 6, 2012 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

          Being a Jew is a racial/national rather than religious identity, so one cannot cease being a Jew with a splash of holy water. Beyond that, the problem is knowing the difference between a true and a false conversion. One can’t. So exclude them all and let God sort them out.

      • Posted November 6, 2012 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

        kilroy,

        Matt, I think your idea of absolute exclusion of jews is ridiculously extreme. Not even the third reich was like that. Read Hitler’s Jewish Soldiers” by Brian Rigg. Jewish soldiers who served well in the army could apparently join the national community. Many top army brass were partially jewish. As long as they honestly repudiate their lies, hypocrisies and other methods, and are willing to fight on the right side, then I say, let them in

        First of all, there’s a big difference between Jews and those who repudiate Judaism yet have Jewish ancestry to one degree or another. Marcus falls in the former category, a category where there wasn’t any confusion in NS Germany. For that matter, Madonna and other White converts to Judaism must go, too.

        I wouldn’t be averse to a pragmatic case-by-case approach to Mischlings and people with fractional non-White ancestry. We can muddle through that.

        But there’s nothing ridiculously extreme about kicking out the Jews. Plenty of nations have done it, and none of them decided against it because they were paralyzed with indecision over how to handle edge cases and corner cases.

      • Daniel Constantin
        Posted November 7, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

        About the issue of Jews who identify or claim to identify with us, I thought I’d make a few comments that I think should be reasonable even to someone like Markus.

        In order for a Jew to be considered White or European (the latter is my preferred term, which I apply in both a biological and spiritual sense), he/she would need certain key qualities. First, not be of significant Semitic biological-racial background, which is the original background of the Jews, and rather be largely European in descent and also have a European/White physical appearance; having a fraction of Jewish-Semitic blood which is lesser than the amount of European blood does not truly matter, as long as it is a significantly lesser (the smaller the better) amount. Secondly, this “Jew” must not be a follower of Judaism (for Judaism is necessarily something non-European and even anti-European), must not have been raised under Jewish religious or cultural conditions or practices (but rather European ones), must identify with and feel as a White/European.

        As a simple formula, this “Jew” must be largely European by blood and physical form, our “race of the body,” and must identify and feel as European, our “race of the soul or spirit.” In short, this “Jew” must not even be a Jew at all. You cannot be Jewish and White or European at the same time; the two are mutually exclusive.

        Now, I understand that there are some Jews out there who are followers of Judaism and are of Jewish cultural background but at the same time are influenced by the fact that they grew up in and interacted with the people of a European or European-derived (white) country. In this case, we see certain Jews who have taken cultural influence mixed in with their own Jewish culture and they may even have a certain degree of loyalty to that Gentile nation they live in. They basically have “double identity” of sorts. These kinds of Jews, regardless of their partial identification with us, must be rejected as foreigners. Off they go to Israel! They can, in the best case scenario, form the basis of a partnership between ourselves and Jews who are not hostile to us, but they can never, ever be part of us. In the end, such people simply do not have the bond with us that we have with each other (i.e. they do not have bond that even two separate white/European ethnicities, despite their differences, will always have with each other), because they are in fact Jews.

        • Greg Johnson
          Posted November 7, 2012 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

          My approach is to say that if a person who thinks of himself as white, and whose ancestors thought of themselves as white, turns out to have some Jewish ancestry because a Jew decided to marry out of the tribe, then we should respect that “conversion” because is is not a matter of words, but of deeds, and it has been confirmed by long practice since then.

          But the idea that we could welcome into our ranks somebody who was a self-conscious Jew on Tuesday (but who had a good deal of European ancestry) then merely says he is one of us today — well that is just ridiculous, because any infiltrators would say that, and what we are engaged in is too important to risk it.

      • kilroy
        Posted November 7, 2012 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

        Thank you for your very thoughtful replies. I just had in mind some obvious examples of so called self hating Jews like Otto Weininger and Gertrude Stein, who had a definite preference for Europe and a distain for the culture of their births. These figures seem to me to be valuable and interesting, even if they may be quite rare. They are worth a lot more than those of our own kind that hate, or would sell out, their european identity and background. It is a normal and standard belief in our society that we europeans need a society of diversity and assimilation, while Jews should have a militant ethnostate that we should support at any cost. I say that anyone, regardless of race, who is willing to fight against this absurdly destructive system of belief, should at least be regarded as an honoured friend.
        Jewish counterfeits of nationalism, (like the “counter jihad”), are usually transparently obvious. If some are truly on our side it will also be obvious.

        • Greg Johnson
          Posted November 7, 2012 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

          Weininger and Stein are both remarkable individuals. I have been planning a Gertrud Stein article for some time.

    • Lew
      Posted November 6, 2012 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

      It must be a slow day at the synagogue seeing that the rabbi here decided to check in.

      Raimondo’s reasoning shows why WNists need to be careful about supporting anti-Zionism. In fact, they ought support Zionism. The logic of those arguments can easily be turned against us. Most anti-Zionists are hardcore anti-Whites like Raimondo. Supporting anti-Zionists generally means supporting people who are anti-White.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 6, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

      Markus is a Jew, and it has become my custom to delete his posts without reading them, much less responding to them. But if you want to sharpen your teeth on him Matt, go right ahead.

      • Daniel Constantin
        Posted November 6, 2012 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        Greg, I have to say that I personally think you are doing the right thing in censoring the opposition on this site. There are places or forums of debate where the opposition should be welcome so that argumentation between two groups can take place, but then there are also places where only members of a single group should discuss matters (Counter-Currents is one of those places at the moment). If all the idiots like Markus or any liberals, egalitarians, anti-nationalists, etc. out there were allowed to say what they wanted, this place would be overwhelmed by B.S. and few would be able to get serious in-group intellectual discussion going.

        • Greg Johnson
          Posted November 6, 2012 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

          Markus has the whole rest of the internet to go to. There is a whole thread for jilted CC commentators to sulk on over at Majority Rights.

    • Dominion
      Posted November 6, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

      For a people living in their own homeland, it should be enough for them to decide their own way and destiny, obviously. I fully agree on Macedonia in that regard, as well as with Palestine, Ukraine and South Ossetia, and consider Dugin a primary and positive influence in this attitude. If the people can develop a relationship with a group of foreigners who make a home in their land and become part of the makeup and life of the city and country, that is one thing. There are some “cosmopolitan” cities that could perhaps serve as examples of this (Vancouver, where relations with Asian and Indian populations are generally better and in fact makes heritage, including European heritage, something prized by many whites whom I speak to). The problem comes when people are living in lands not their own, when the relationship with the native populace must be considered. In Greece, where immigration has been massive as a result of its economic masters and has negatively impacted the Greek people, this has failed and results naturally in large scale opposition.

      In the case of the Jews, the question has always been one of identity. “Can there be a Russian Jew?” “Can there be a German Jew?” and so on. Hitler recounts in his book how, observing a Jew in Vienna, he asked himself first “Is this a Jew?”, and then “Is this a German?” Some Jewish writers have taken issue with the economic view of man, including Marx, who says in the Jewish question that world capitalism was merely secularized Judaism, which “robbed the whole world – both the world of men and nature – of its specific value…The god of the Jews has [therefore] become secularized and become the god of the world.” The Jew, as anyone else, has an interest in keeping his people and culture alive, and indeed in being able to coexist with all other nations rather than considering them either eternal inherent threats (as with the Arab and Muslim world, or with traditional Christian Europe) or merely good backers (as Israel does with the USA) and instead as manifestations of the variety that exists in Man, no less so than the Jews themselves. However, he must purge himself of the chauvinism which has captured the Zionists as it captured the European revanchists of the 30’s and 40’s.

  9. Markus
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Matt, I read Counter Currents is because I’m interested in history and survival of European Civilization and interested in legitimizing the idea of some type of ethnically rooted liberal nationalism, along the lines of Herder. The hard questions — what to do with peoples in places that are already mixed to great degree; what to do with people like me of questionable status; or how to prevent future unwanted mixing given the scale and speed of global interconnections — are difficult indeed. But I think you’ll have to answer them in some credible way if you want to appeal to more than a tiny number of people.

    . . .

    Greg, you understand that all I have to do is post under a different name with different email and a different ip address, and then you DO read and you DO publish and your readers DO consider my posts, without prejudice? So why are you encouraging subterfuge? You really think you can tell the difference between a liberal Jew and a liberal non-Jew?

    The problem with calling me a Jew and saying a Jew can’t be white is that I look white, act white, have mostly non-Jewish European ancestry, and most importantly, regardless of what I think, 99.9% of people you consider to be authentically white agree with my self-identification. I ain’t goin’ nowhere.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted November 6, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

      Markus, you are welcome to try to deceive me, but I know your voice and I will delete you every time I see it. Consider yourself banned, unless and until you acquire an IP address in Israel.

      • Jaego
        Posted November 6, 2012 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

        Bravo, that’s the “take no prisoners” spirit that we need. They don’t want us to have anything of our own – not one single thing. No Nations, no Papers, no Stations, no Organizations and no Blogs.

    • Posted November 6, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      Markus,

      The hard questions — what to do with peoples in places that are already mixed to great degree; what to do with people like me of questionable status; or how to prevent future unwanted mixing given the scale and speed of global interconnections — are difficult indeed.

      Your people have managed to pull it off for millennia, and are doing a fine job of it today despite trains and telephones.

      For most people who are “mixed”, and a good share of Whites, they’ll want nothing to do with our project. They’re not invited and not looking for an invitation. Any serious analysis of the balkanization of America would necessarily account for a massive swath of “almost White” and “liberal White” people; a sort of North American Brazil.

      I suspect there will be a phenomenon shortly afterward wherein many “liberal White” people reconsider their choice, but that’s all speculation and beside the point.

      There are people who have ancestry issues which raise hard questions. You’re not one of them. A person of Jewish descent who identifies as Jewish and actively plots to confuse Jewish identity with our identity is an extremely easy question.

      I would sooner admit a full-blooded African.

  10. Chris
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Regarding the accusations of imperialism and supposedly wanting to opress other peoples, I thought I might contribute the fact that even in the past, many of the so-called Fascists were not at all interested in opressing other peoples or taking over other countries. The Strasserists in Germany, the Romanian Iron Guard, Dollfuss’s Austria, and Mosley’s BUF were explicitly against imperialism and the unjust exploitation of other peoples for example. Also, Fascist Spain and Portugal were the same in the sense that they just sat there doing hardly any harm to other nations for their entire existence. These liberal-egalitarian types simply focus on specifically the regimes that prove their points, like the Third Reich and Fascist Italy, and only those regimes. They simply scream “Nazis” and develop a set of certain supposed “traits of Fascism” (which obviously include things like imperialism and chauvinism), and then they try to “prove” that every nationalist movement (including ours today) had them in order to put every movement into the same box. They are literally simply stereotyping, as ironic as that sounds. They are just using stereotypes against us. It’s really not worth getting into the “Prove to me that you’re not going to be evil Nazis” debate, I would recommend just laughing it off and simply mock your opponent whenever the issue comes up.

  11. fnn
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Whatever hooliganism GD has engaged in they haven’t burned three people to death like the Greek Reds:
    http://digitaljournal.com/article/335720

    …Metropolitan Ambrosius of Kalavryta issued a 13 point statement expressing friendly feelings towards Golden Dawn. He said, “I can not understand how and why the ideas of the Golden Dawn are subversive,” as he questioned why the dangerous ideas of SYRIZA and the KKE (Communist party) and not considered subversive.
    Ambrosius went on to say that the “treacherous media….project and magnify any excesses of Golden Dawn” whilst remaining silent on the exploits of SYRIZA, recalling the hooded anarchists responsible for burning the Athens bank, resulting in the deaths of three bank employees.

  12. Catiline
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Ah yes, another kosher rebel. The moment that resistance moves beyond the keyboard or word processor, political restrictions (like barbaric dietary restrictions and dress codes) kick in, and old Yahweh gets to exercise His veto power over the actions of the uncircumcised.

    Add one more poseur to the rubbish heap.

  13. GB
    Posted November 6, 2012 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    I once applied for a columnist gig at AntiWar.com. It paid a very modest sum of money and I did it solely because I liked the website and its stance on foreign affairs. The editor who I talked to really liked my writing samples and thought I´d be a good fit… until he passed my name on to Justin Raimondo. Raimondo googled me and discovered that I had written articles for what he deemed were “nazi” publications (the American Free Press was one of them) and vetoed me. He had every right to do so, but neither my writings were nazi nor were my AFP stories included in the writing samples I sent them (most of my articles were in fact columns and feature stories written for mainstream news organizations.) I then realized (and confirmed it by reading more of Raimondo’s rants whenever he decided to tackle “fascism”) that he had an unhealthy obsession with the issue.

    Since he happens to like Lawrence Dennis, he typically obfuscates the fact that Dennis was a fascist buthe’s the only politically incorrect author he’ll cut any slack. Other than that, Raimondo is very trigger happy (and very loose with facts) whenever he talks about nationalist or nativist political movements, economic protectionists or any thinker that dares take a step beyond paleoconservatism. For a libertarian, he’s very neurotic about those he perceives as “fascists” and probably tends to go overboard when criticizing them because he doesn’t want AntiWar.com to be labeled anti-Semitic by outfits like the ADL and the SPLC (good luck on that.) In any event, Raimondo does have a principled stance on Israeli interventionism and, like Counterpunch on the left, he allows a number of writers critical of Tel-Aviv to express their viewpoint on his website.

  14. Stephen
    Posted November 8, 2012 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    I think this is a good piece criticizing Raimondo’s knee jerk rejection to the realities of nationalism and tribalism because his libertarian ideology rejects such. I liked Mr. Parrot’s responses to Markus. Perhaps someday some of the “almost whites” should be given some sort of consideration in America and I believe Mr. Parrot when he says he desires no imperialism or revanchism. Pluriversalism is ideal and can avoid the tragedies of the past. I think white nationalists should state openly their belief in live and let live separatism and rejection of expansionist warfare. That’s really the big card that the Jews and leftists have: the claim that white nationalists supposedly threaten everyone else. If this isn’t so and the public gradually learns this, it gets considerably tougher for the establishment to deny Whites that which non-whites worldwide have in the form of the supposedly human right of self-determination.

    The events in Greece are great news. I would love to see an actual Golden Dawn Government (and an actual Jobbik Government in Hungary too). Greece should be for the Greeks and the good Metropolitan is right that this should not be considered an extreme belief! I so hope if these Hellene men and women of the GD get their chance they don’t blow it on war with Macedonia or Turkey (and the very likely follow up invasion this would bring by the American golem). Not only would Parrot’s idea of the Golden Dawn aiding other White Nationalists in other countries help provide greater peace and greater good but other white allies emerging from ideology exportation could band together with Greece and thus provide protection to the rebirth the Golden Dawn hopefully will bring. If Golden Dawn fixes Greece’s economic problems and removes most or all of the non-whites, I would love to see the New Greece try to bring its birthrate up considerably.

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