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Counter-Currents Radio Podcast No. 271
The Neo-Reaction to Dissident Right Pipeline:
A Conversation with Nicholas Jeelvy

162 words / 58:51

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This week Greg Johnson talks to Counter-Currents writer Nicholas Jeelvy (part 1 of 2), answers questions from our Entropy donors, and thanks all recent donors for their support. Our annual fundraiser, which started on March 10th. Since our last update we have received $4,057.55 for a total of $10,272.80. Thank you, everyone, for your generosity.

  • 0:00: Introduction
  • 0:03: Thanks to our donors
  • 2:44: Responses to Entropy questions and comments
  • 5:42: Conversation with Nick Jeelvy
  • 6:37: The NRX to Dissident Right Pipeline
  • 32:25: Ethnopolitics in the Ottoman Empire
  • 43:08: Meritocratic individualism vs. organic community
  • 48:35: How Leo Strauss got religion wrong

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22 Comments

  1. Benjamin
    Posted May 1, 2020 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Having been in the original TRS Facebook group back in 2012, I can say that NRx contributed a lot to the foundation of the “alt-right”, which in turn influenced today’s “Groyper Movement”.

    Mencious Moldbug was one of the first reactionary authors I encountered in those circles, after I’d been introduced to Julius Evola.

    My general advice to people, given the nature of most ex-libertarians (at least those in the Anglo-sphere) is to not distrust anyone who held onto libertarianism for too-long. If you stop to think of the most un-optical people in “our movement”, its the ex-libertarians who converted to “right-wing” thought who’re the worst offenders, E.G. Christopher Cantwell– i.e., the “crying Nazi”. I suspect this is because libertarian thought lends its self to autistic men who see the entire world in terms of ideological abstractions, not families or communities or tribes. Like, only ex-libertarians would think that calling your podcast “The Daily Shoah”, all the while denying the Holocaust actually happened, would be good for outreach to normal, socially well adjusted people.

    On a totally unrelated note, I was very surprised at how cordial Greg Johnson’s debate with Andrew Anglin was– he even went as far as to tell listeners to support Counter-Currents. For all of his talk of “throwing gays off of rooftops” and the over-the-top LARP stuff, its obvious when you actually listen to the guy, in his own words, in real-time, he’s not nearly as edgy as he lets on when he gets “in character” for his Daily Stormer articles. I wish all the differing factions of the dissident right could get along that well and discuss things civilly.

    • Andrew White
      Posted May 1, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

      Greg Johnson and Andrew Anglin talking about the virus was unironically what MSM should be like. It felt like ‘NPR after the Racewar’. I really hope one day Greg can fulfill the Charlie Rose/Larry King role for our new society, as he has always seemed like an expert dialectician and a gracious host.

  2. Dandelion
    Posted May 2, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Regarding IQ and the right: I think Nicholas is unfamiliar with the importance of racial grievance in the American political landscape. The dysfunction of the black community is constantly blamed upon whites, with ever more elusive explanations such as “institutional racism” being invented, when in fact the differences are biological and quite easily explained by iq science, which is on very firm academic ground. In fact, in addition to the well known iq difference between blacks and whites, IQ scores over predict black performance; according to Jensen and corroborated by a number of studies, if a white and a black have the same SAT score(a standardized test at the end of high school which correlates with iq), the white will still usually do much better than the black by a number of percentile points! Books such as The Bell Curve, the work of Jensen and rushton, and Shockley are useful for countering the racial egalitarian arguments of the left. Even though the science of race and iq is firmly established, the media myth of black equality and oppression still persists and eclipses the truth most of the time.

    However, for white identity IQ is certainly not the end all and be all of identitarian politics, as some groups such as North Asians have notably higher average iqs than whites. I imagine the difference in average iq among the different Slavic groups is small, so that’s probably the reason Nicolas discounts it. On the other hand, consider the potential utility of iq science against mass third world immigration into Slavic countries.

    • Benjamin
      Posted May 2, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      The normie-cons /are/ somewhat right when they claim that socialist welfare policies are responsible for the condition of African Americans.

      As far as Slavic countries, I recall a study illustrating that West Slavs I.e. Poles have the highest IQs of any group in Europe. However, that was only for Polish immigrants to America.

      With the East Slavs I.e. Russians, their “average” national IQ is like 2 points lower than Poland, but Polish IQ scores only measure the ethnically homogenous Polish state, whereas the Russian state would also include all of the various Central Asian ethnicities, various Muslims, etc. so it’s not an apples to apples comparison.

      Also, average IQ isn’t the same thing as real IQ distribution. It’s possible to have a country with a lower avg IQ but have more geniuses per capita than a neighboring country with a higher avg IQ. I get the feeling this is the case in Russia, which would explain why, despite being considered a “backwards country”, they seem to have more geniuses and inventors than other places— although, the fact that Russia takes up like 1/5th of the planets total land mass may also have something to do with that

      • Dandelion
        Posted May 2, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

        That would be in keeping with the typical north south IQ gradient across the globe. I’ve also heard that Croats form a market dominant minority in those countries and that had something to do with the ethnic conflict over there.

        Blacks per capita are better off in America than almost anywhere on the planet, especially most of Africa. It’s only when you start comparing groups within America to one another does grievance start.

        • Posted May 2, 2020 at 11:55 am | Permalink

          1. I do not deny or minimize the impact of IQ differences between the races. Rather, I find that IQ differences are not sufficient to explain differences mostly within races, and that IQ tells very little of the story of human group dynamics. But even between races, as was said, IQ overpredicts black achievement, meaning that we should look elsewhere for additional factors (probably related to personality psychology).
          2. I’ve suspected for a while that Slavs might have a flatter curve, i. e. wider distribution of IQ than other whites. Certainly would explain overrepresentation of Poles, Russians, Croats and Serbs among world-eminent intellectuals.

  3. HungarianFashionista
    Posted May 2, 2020 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    The Armenians were massacred by the Young Turks, who were nationalists. It should be tallied with the crimes of nationalism, not of empire.

    • Greg Johnson
      Posted May 2, 2020 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

      Ethnically cleansing people from their ancestral homelands is just a particularly assholish form of imperialism.

      • HungarianFashionista
        Posted May 3, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

        The Turkish narrative.

        (I speak neither Turkish nor Armenian, haven’t researched this conflict, and have no opinion on who is right or wrong.)

    • Posted May 3, 2020 at 6:16 am | Permalink

      Nationalists often have to clean up the mess left behind by imperialists. Some nationalists manage the cleanup operation with minimum bloodshed. The Young Turks, who were civic nationalists and thoroughly infiltrated by the Dönmeh (converso Jews), made the cleanup operations much bloodier than necessary.

      • HungarianFashionista
        Posted May 3, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

        Nationalists often have to clean up the mess left behind by imperialists.

        Nationalists are liars. They often invent fictious ancestors to prop up their land claims, and always grossly exaggerate the size of the imperial mess. The mess that they themselves create (murder of their own moderates, escalation of whatever little conflict they can find) is simply memory-holed.

        This is true of Hungarian nationalists as well, who can’t stop wailing over “Austrian colonization” (there was no such thing) and blame the other side for the horrible civil wars, plagues, depopulation etc. that they themselves inflicted on the people.

        Historically anti-imperialist nationalist movements in Europe were branches of international freemasonry, and they were either under the control of the usual suspects or were proxies for empires (in the Ottoman territories for Russia). This goes all the way back to the 16th century when the Central European proto-nationalist uprisings were managed from (((Amsterdam))).

        I’m not a nationalist, nor an imperialist. Some people know how to govern, others don’t. And this seems to be a stable group characteristic. We rarely find people who didn’t know how to govern and suddenly at some point they just figured it out. If someone complains about the hundreds of years of oppression of his people, my orange bullshit detector starts flashing in my head.

        Show me 500 years of good governance, high culture and civilization, peaceful ethnic and neighborly relations, happy and healthy children, and I’m impressed, regardless of your ideology or constitution.

        • Posted May 3, 2020 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

          I guess you’re right. I hereby renounce my false nationalist ancestors and will devote all my efforts to reconstituting the glorious Ottoman Empire which in no way, shape or form committed any atrocities against my people, forcibly half of them to Islam or repressed our culture all those long years (those are all nationalist lies).

          • alfa
            Posted May 4, 2020 at 1:40 am | Permalink

            She’s not wrong.
            Nationalists projects in the balkans have been a disaster, that doesn’t mean the ottoman empire was good. OE created a mess with bad administration, creating resentment among christians and muslims, poverty, no advancements in culture, no philosophy worth mentioning, etc.
            But the nationalists created a destructive view of politics where the first goal is always to increase your country’s size at the expence of your neighbours, convert or kill members of different religions and so on. All of this instead of thinking how to create a good, prosperous society inside some well defined, stable borders.

            • Greg Johnson
              Posted May 4, 2020 at 3:47 am | Permalink

              Invading other people’s lands & forcibly converting people to one’s religion sound more like:

              A. Imperialism
              B. Nationalism

              • HungarianFashionista
                Posted May 4, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

                Both. Empires say, Deus Vult, or some variation of that.

                Nation states say, it has always been our ancestral homeland, and now we are going to liberate it from the Mongol occupiers. (The enemy is always “Mongols”.)

                In the first round of the Trianon peace conference after WWI almost the entire territory of today’s Hungary was supposed to be carved up between the neighboring new states. Only Budapest and the surrounding areas would have been left for us as some sort of Hungarian Bantustan.

                Needless to say, we also have ideas about the ownership of the neighboring territories. The least that we would be content with is the restoration of the 1941 borders. When Hitler presented the redrawn map to the borders conference, the Romanian foreign minister literally fainted under the table. It was a beautiful moment in our otherwise difficult 20th century history.

              • alfa
                Posted May 5, 2020 at 4:11 am | Permalink

                Let’s say a region is mixed with catholic, orthodox and muslim population living in the same villages and towns or in different villages but each near the other.
                Now a nationalist leader from a neighbouring country which is ethnically/religiously majority C/O/M spreads hatred through the media towards 2 of those 3 ethnoreligious groups and distributes weapons to members of its ethnic group in that mixed region and convinces them they need to conquer that area, expell the 2 other ethnicities and annex it to the “motherland”.
                Call it imperialism, but those people like to call themselves nationalists because they see that land to be rightfully theirs. There won’t be peace of someone thinks history or geography or whatever gives him the right to subjugate other groups.
                If people can’t live together the solution is radical decentralization, however it’s often the case that before the politically engineered war people lived together happily and could have solved any problem without violence if the elites didn’t want a war.
                When Hitler annexed Poland and military occupied eastern europe he didn’t say “I am an imperialist” but he justified his actions as “nationalists”, for “the good of his people” and so on with boilerplate justifications.

            • Posted May 4, 2020 at 3:55 am | Permalink

              1. The Ottoman administration system didn’t cause hatred between Christians and Muslims. People always hate each other when forced to live together. The Ottomans, to their credit, left many matters in the hands of the religious groups, but theirs was still an imperfect system (though less bad than the current American imperial system).
              2. The nations of the Balkans have a rich cultural heritage from deep within the Ottoman period, complete with philosophy. Language barriers, the oral nature of the culture and inwardness of the nations obscure it to the wider world, but it exists. It is best observed in architecture and music from the time.
              3. What Greg said.

          • HungarianFashionista
            Posted May 4, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

            Turks are not white, and Islam is even more problematic than Christianity. White people should not live under Turkic or Islamic rule. But real and lasting liberation requires exceptional political talents. There was a reason why whites ended up under the thumb of the Turk in the first place.

  4. Vauquelin
    Posted May 3, 2020 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    Interesting to see so many of my fellow travelers arriving at this political destination from a libertarian angle instead of a socialist one such as mine. The leap from libertarian to (racial) collectivist seems like a bigger one that the step from class struggle to ethnic struggle, and from social justice to ethnic justice, as all are predicated on the same basic principle that we could have it all so much better if only ((someone)) wasn’t keeping us down.

  5. Posted May 3, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Regarding Mencius Moldbug, he’s Jewish and I suspect his whole project is about providing an alternative explanation for the state of things that doesn’t pin blame on the Jews.

    Go read his review of Kevin MacDonald’s work. He dismisses it without providing a rebuttal.

    • Benjamin
      Posted May 3, 2020 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

      Moldbug’s whole thesis is TL;DR “radical Protestants from New England created modern leftism”.

      Which there is a certain amount of truth to. However, there was a good rebuttal to this NRx talking point, right here on CC a month or two ago. Can’t recall the name of the article. Maybe Greg can link us ITT.

      What you said regarding obfuscation seems plausible. Actually, it would be interesting if Greg could do an interview with Moldbug. That would be very interesting.

  6. Dr ExCathedra
    Posted May 4, 2020 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    It continues to astonish me that so many fine intellects here do their genealogical storytelling about our current Progressive regime by jumping from Christianity (in some form, often cartoonishly drawn) to Antiwhite Egalitarianism without paying attention to the determinative and world-altering contribution of the Enlightenment and its child-by-reaction, Romanticism.

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